Dr. Akhtar Hussain Sandhu, expert on Sikh/Punjab Studies, historian, scholar and columnist from Pakistan, currently living in USA was interviewed by famous anchor Arshdeep Kaur Battu for Sanjha TV, Surrey (Canada). The Light Newspaper is publishing first part of this interview and the rest of parts will be published in the forthcoming Sundays.

Translated by:

Farooq Muhammad Wyne

Lecturer in English

Government Islamia College Civil Lines, Lahore

Part 1

Host Arshdeep Kaur Battu: Welcome to Sanjha TV. I’m your host, Arshdeep. We extend a warm welcome to you on the Listen Up Segment with Arshdeep Kaur Battu. Today’s program features a very special discussion, as we have an esteemed Dr. Akhtar Hussain Sandhu with us. Whenever we discuss our Language (Boli) Land (Mitti) and Culture (Sabyachar), it takes us back to 1947 when our nation was divided, particularly Punjab.

Eastern Punjab (Charda Punjab or the Indian part of Punjab), Western Punjab (Lehnda Punjab or the Pakistani part of Punjab), and the present Punjab (Aha Punjab) have been established in different regions (Pakistan and India). In these Punjabs, diverse discussions occur, indicating that Punjabis from different lands still feel connected to one another, despite the separation caused by borders. Whenever Punjabis meet, we take pride in our culture, embrace one another, attend each other’s marriages, and participate in each other’s joys and sorrows. We are concerned about the division of Punjab, but such discussions in the Punjabi Diaspora (Teeja Punjab) often take a different turn.

Typically, we focus on Indian Punjab (Charda Punjab), but today we are discussing Pakistani Punjab (Lehnda Punjab). For this, we have the highly honorable Dr. Akhtar Hussain Sandhu with us. When it comes to his personality, no introduction is needed. He is a scholar, a historian, and an author of multiple books. He hails from Pakistan and is with us today in Canada. We welcome you, Dr.

Sandhu.

Guest Akhtar Hussain Sandhu: Thank you very much for your love and kindness. I also extend my gratitude to those living in Canada and everyone listening to us for their love and affection for Punjab.

Host: Dr. Sandhu, I recall our first meeting in the library. As I got to know you, my respect for you grew continuously. I then thought we should invite you to our panel, and we are grateful for your valuable time. Currently, you are in Surrey. How are you feeling?

Guest: I am very happy to be here. It feels like home because wherever you find love for your language, land, and culture, you feel a sense of belonging. Regarding our meeting in the library, I am very happy to visit the Gurdwara, which serves as a center for community love for Punjabi culture and education. The Gurdwara represents the symbol of education, wisdom, and learning. I felt extremely pleased that you have a library next to your studio. As you know, there is a shortage of libraries, and our Punjabi youth seem to be moving away from books and libraries. We need to promote Punjabi culture through education. I am delighted to be in Surrey, especially because I met many good friends here, including Sardar Jaiteg Singh Anant, Gian Singh Sandhu, Jaswindar Singh Parmar, Harpreet Singh and other friends, such as poets, journalists, and authors. I pray for all these gentlemen and wish that Punjabis, wherever they live, continue to flourish. The Punjabis living in Canada are like flowers spreading the aroma of Punjabi culture in this land.

Host: Thank you, and on behalf of all Canadian Punjabis, we welcome you to this land. Our hearts feel delighted when it comes to Pakistan, and we become eager to learn about it. Although I have never been to Pakistan, I have a strong desire to visit, especially the land of Punjab where our Sikh ancestors lived. I would like to visit the sacred places we see in videos, where our pilgrims go and touch the sacred walls of those buildings. Whenever we see such videos, our eyes become wet, and I believe the experience will be even more intense when I physically visit.

Today, we will discuss various topics as you are also a historian, a scholar, actively engaged in youth affairs, and most importantly, the Principal of an esteemed college. When we talk about Pakistani Punjab, the topic of minorities, which you have already discussed, is of utmost importance. We have also touched on the pride of Punjabi culture. Now, coming to the topic of women’s education and empowerment, as you know, every country talks about gender equality. Could you share your thoughts on women’s education in Pakistani Punjab and the steps being taken to ensure their education and welfare?

Guest: Indeed, you have raised an important question. I understand that some people might not agree with me, but my stance is that in our Punjab, there are many organizations that advocate for women’s empowerment. However, I view them from two different angles. The status of human beings is different and somewhat elevated. If you compare them to animals, you might say that they have some physical similarities, but in terms of intellect, they are two distinct species. In my opinion, a woman is highly respectable and honorable because she gives birth.

Sometimes I say God is the creator, and on earth, it is the woman who gives birth and gives life, meaning you find a God-like characteristic in a woman that is not found in a man. Secondly, a woman is the epicenter of peace, love, and fragrance. A man’s dynamics are different; he is a warrior who goes out and earns. Therefore, there is no comparison between men and women; they are two different genders with distinct roles and characteristics. Even if we look at the physical attributes of a man and a woman, we will find differences.

Before the inception of civilization, people who lived in caves, as some experts claim, were considered uncivilized. However, I don’t believe they were uncivilized. During the Stone Age, women who gave birth in caves raised their children without modern facilities and technologies. These women were able to continue the human race through their special care in raising their offspring. Therefore, they were not uncivilized but rather civilized as they managed to preserve the human species that we have become today. Then civilization began, so you cannot disconnect the period of the inception of civilization from the Stone Age. Human beings, especially women, played an important role in the transition of the human race from the Stone Age to civilization. This is why the status of women has always been highly elevated, even from the start. Additionally, we say God provides and sustains us, and there is no doubt about it, as it is one of His attributes. When it comes to society and our homes, who provides and nourishes us? It is our women—our mothers, sisters, and wives.

Two things are very important in life on earth: creation and sustenance. In the Heavens, God does that, and on earth, it is the woman who is endowed with such characteristics. However, I do not believe that comparing men and women to determine who is superior or inferior is productive; instead, we should discuss the different and important roles that both genders play in society, especially women whose status is as elevated as it can be. In our Punjabi culture, whenever there was a vendetta, it was the women who would go to the enemy’s house, and the fight would end due to the woman’s honor. If someone placed a woman’s scarf (dupatta/chunni) at someone else’s feet, the fight would end immediately. This was our culture, and this was women’s honor.

There is an incident which is not recorded in history but is sometimes quoted by a segment of the Punjabis of our Lehnda Punjab (Pakistani part of Punjab) that when Maharaja Ranjit Singh told his Wazir (minister) about a debate among Muslims regarding a garden called Bagh-i-Fadak, he expressed that it should be given to the daughter of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). When the wazir asked for evidence, Maharaja reprimanded him, saying, “Hold your tongue because when daughters of an honorable family come to someone’s door, no other justification should be demanded. Hazrat Fatima (RA) was not an ordinary lady but a daughter of the Prophet (PBUH) of the Muslims; she should be given the whole kingdom by them…if she asked for everything, she should be given everything.” This illustrates the importance of a daughter or a woman. It is widely known in our folklore that when daughters come to someone’s door, everything should be put on hold. We often see men as chivalrous, but when they see a single drop of tears in the eyes of their daughters and women, it melts them down. How brave and strict a man may be, when he is in front of his mother and daughter, the same strict man becomes like a fusible candle. When we look at the culture of Punjab, we are amazed by the purity and sense of equanimity. There is an element of respect for women in Punjabi culture.

Similarly, the concept of “Zar (Wealth), Zan (Women), Zameen (Land)” is prevalent in Punjabi culture. However, if we critically analyze it, we will realize that men in Punjabi culture have always put their lives at stake for their women. This demonstrates the respect for women in Punjabi culture. In contrast, in Western culture, you’ll find the idea of rugged individualism, whereas in Punjabi culture, the sense of collectivity is more prevalent. What is often perceived as a male-dominated society is actually not so; rather, the honor they have for women is unparalleled. You cannot harass a woman in Punjabi culture and get away with it; such a phenomenon is not found in the West. In Punjabi culture, there is also a dominant aspect: even if someone has seven sons, he would pray to God for a daughter because to him, sons are inheritors of properties, and daughter is the custodian of the funeral of father (dhee jinazey di waris).

Host: Those who have daughters can understand. I can see you’re being a bit emotional right now.

Guest: Just look at the beauty of our culture. It is often misrepresented that in Punjab, women are usually treated as concubines and inferior, but don’t rush to such conclusions before studying and analyzing all aspects of Punjabi culture.

Host: As our Guru Nanak once said, “So kyo manda aakhiye, jit jamme rajan” (Why call her bad who gives birth to kings?). It is also said that God doesn’t come down to earth to show us what Paradise looks like, but He created Mother to give you a glimpse of Paradise and told you that Paradise lies at her feet. As you (Dr. Akhtar) have shared about the glorification of women in Punjabi culture, a large segment of Punjabi society follows such ethics, but there are still some who disregard women.

Guest: Yes, I understand your point. The issue is this: there are two paths—one is right, and the other is wrong. One path is of God, and the other is of Satan. One path is spiritual, and the other is materialistic. All religions, including Islam, have given us the path—the path of goodness, called Sirat-al-Mustaqeem (the Right Path) in Islam. Now, you see, there is one individual who values material things above all, but on the other hand, there is another man who rejects himself and works for the betterment of human society. Now, tell me, which one of these will be remembered in history? The selfish or the altruistic?

Look at the example of Baba Guru Nanak; if he wanted, he could have amassed wealth, but no, he chose the other path. He worked for the betterment of his surroundings; he distributed whatever he had to the poor. He did “Sucha/Sacha Sauda” (the righteous transaction). Today, why do people remember him? Because of his deeds. He sacrificed wealth for the sake of spiritual people. Even after centuries, those to be remembered are the likes of Guru Nanak and other selfless individuals who worked for society and humanity. If a criminal-minded person grabs and plunders the rights of women, or if someone uses religion for personal gain or social status, or if someone is money-minded, history will not recognize them with decent diction.