Dr. Akhtar Hussain Sandhu, expert on Sikh/Punjab Studies, historian, scholar and columnist from Pakistan, currently living in USA was interviewed by famous anchor Arshdeep Kaur Battu for Sanjha TV, Surrey (Canada). The Light Newspaper is publishing first part of this interview and the rest of parts will be published in the forthcoming Sundays.
Translated by:
Farooq Muhammad Wyne
Lecturer in English
Government Islamia College Civil Lines, Lahore
Part 2
Earlier, you mentioned “Wand” (Division); division didn’t only occur in 1947. Way before that, Delhi was part of Punjab, and then it was separated by the British, and no one spoke out against this territorial loss of Punjab. NWFP and other regions extending up to Kabul during the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh were part of Punjab, and even Kashmir was under Punjab; later, Kashmir separated, but no Punjabi leader cried or protested. Moving on, Haryana got separated, Himachal Pradesh, Chandigarh gained the status of union territory, who spoke against that?
The leadership crisis in Punjab has always existed. The major issue in Punjab is the crisis of leadership, even today. We (the Punjabis) neither have unity nor capable leadership. A leader is someone who thinks about people. There is a word called “Ishq.” It is something that cannot be associated with a man or a woman; it would be an insult to the word “Ishq” if it is used in this context. “Ishq” means losing your comfort, wealth, and everything you have for the sake of a ‘cause’ or mission. The cause of ultimate societal betterment. “Ishq” entails selflessness and self-negation in pursuit of higher objectives. Spirituality, which entails selflessness and self-negation, is the prime quality of a capable leader, but it is rarely seen today. If someone doesn’t rise above his materialistic gains and vested interests, he cannot benefit people and hence cannot become a leader. Such a person will deliver speeches for the public good but will have his own motives. So, the leadership of Punjab is now suffering from materialism. They (the politicians) need money, ministries, and status. In conclusion, Punjabis lack unity and leadership.
Host: We often remember Bhagat Singh, especially in September when his holiday is celebrated. Bhagat Singh would have never imagined that his Punjab would be divided into two parts, and elderly Punjabis would lament the division of the land. His only dream was that Punjabis should remain united, undivided, and in harmony. I often think his soul must be writhing to see the current state of Punjabis.
Guest: Regarding Bhagat Singh, there are many elements to discuss. Sadly, some members of the Sikh community have ostracized him from the Sikh community. My question is, if someone calls himself a Gursikh (a devoted follower of Sikh Gurus), will the Guru cast him away? If a Sikh goes to the Guru and calls himself his follower, will the Guru say to him, “No, since you do this and that, you go away”? No, the Guru will not say such a thing. When the Guru himself does not reject him, who are we to reject him (Bhagat Singh)? Whoever goes to the holy door of the Gurus is accepted wholeheartedly and embraced. The purity of their (Holy men’s) souls and intellects is very clear; they accept any kind of man, be it good or otherwise. But now, this phenomenon of excommunicating people is prevalent, where individuals are labeled as believers or disbelievers, Sikhs or non-Sikhs. When such states of affairs are prevalent in Punjab, what kind of leadership can we expect?
At least Bhagat Singh was fighting for independence, for Punjab, and for India’s freedom against the colonizers. Just look at these aspects; aren’t they enough? Why do people delve into deeper issues? He was a writer, and if someone is a writer, his task is to write. If someone is a reformer, his task is to reform. If someone is a poet, his task is to write poetry. If someone is a lyricist, he will be remembered for his art. That’s how people should be remembered (for their works), and we don’t need to invade their personal lives to find faults and defects.
Host: But such things are pervading.
Guest: Personal affairs of revered personalities should be left to themselves. Just look at their work. If I am a Professor or researcher on Punjab, that’s enough. No one needs to
look at my religion or personal inclinations or affiliations; this isn’t necessary. Today, you invited me on your television show, for which I am very grateful, but that is because I am a researcher on Punjab. If you invite a political leader, then you would look at him from a political perspective, not a religious one. Likewise, if someone is a reformer, he will be viewed from another context. Whoever contributes to his field gets recognized; hence, we don’t need to delve into his personal or family affairs. This is a drawback in Punjabi culture; they observe minutiae, irrelevant and inconsequential details, and then politicize the whole thing. This is one of the most problematic issues in Punjab.
Host: We often highlight that education is important. We also say that if youth are equipped with education, it will change the course of the country. The youth of any country holds utmost importance. Previously, we were discussing women’s education, how much education and awareness are being provided to (Punjabi) women, and how many of them are being encouraged to join schools and universities and then join the profession they love and aspire to. But whenever we talk about Sikhya (Education), the element of religion cannot be excluded. It is often said (regarding Punjab of Pakistan) that Muslims are given educational opportunities while Non-Muslims are not. Are these things real? Are they happening in Pakistan?
Guest: My father Ch. Khadim Hussain used to say that in childhood, a man’s energy is in his hands and legs; he tries to run, play, and jump. Gradually, the energy moves towards his chest and heart, and he wants to change the world; he wants to become an activist. When he crosses his forties, he becomes mature and a thinker; he starts thinking. This is the age of his wisdom. When he becomes too old, his energies start to fade away, and he only speaks and starts babbling like a child. This is the cycle of life. Our scholars (Vidwan) think, use wisdom, and show the path, values, and wisdom. It is the task of the youth to implement those values and wisdom. Youth is the backbone of any society, and they are the ones who change society. The experience they gather when they reach the age of wisdom is then used to lead people forward from that perspective. Youth is very important. Hence, if the youth is kept away from education, there will be a lapse of awareness among them. This is why the youth, especially those in education, shall realize that their primary objective is learning, not money. The first textbook a child reads is his mother; she inculcates religious and moral values into him. The second textbook of a child is his society and surroundings; he learns from his society, as it is the second institution of learning. The third textbook of a child is his primary educational institution. But when he goes to university, the door becomes open for him; he is already socially constructed by his religion, society, and school. This is the time when he decides in which direction he wants to move, let’s say engineering, medical, religion, or IT. At that moment, he has to strike a balance between the training and learning he received earlier and the direction he now wants to move in. If he fails to do that, it will create an identity crisis in him. This is why he should not cut himself off from the learning he takes from his mother tongue and culture. The important thing is that whichever field he chooses, he has to carry his culture along with him.
If the student forgets his culture, he will face a severe identity crisis; he won’t be able to distinguish between his roots, i.e., whether he is Punjabi or belongs to the West. In Punjab, the English language is taken as a measure of intelligence and education; if someone speaks English in Punjab, he is often considered a scholar. But even in an English society, let’s say an insane or psychologically ill person also speaks English; does it denote wisdom? Of course not. English should not be given preference over Punjabi in Punjab. English is just a language, a mode of communication, and wisdom is
something else. Education doesn’t teach you wisdom; rather, it hones your skills and capabilities. It tells you how to behave. If there is a saint or an engineer inside you, getting an education will bring it out. Likewise, if there is a poet, writer, or historian in you, education will bring it out. The teacher is also an educationist and a facilitator. Our (Punjabi) students are away from books, and even before that, they are away from their Punjabi language and culture. They can speak one or two sentences in Punjabi but aren’t able to carry out a substantial conversation. I remember I was training some officers in Lahore. I asked them, “Do you know Punjabi language? As you’re all Punjabis,” they replied in assent, saying if they can’t speak Punjabi, then who would? So, I read out the lyrics of a famous Punjabi song:
Pichhe pichhe aunda meri chaal vehnda aen, Chirey valia vekhda aen ve, mera lawng gawacha
(translated as, following me, keep a watch on the route I walked; O turbaned boy, keep watching while my nose ornament is lost).
Then I asked what “Chiray wala” means in Punjabi, and they replied, “Those who have a straight line or distinct mark in their hairstyle (cheer).” I tried to suppress my laughter and said a “turban” (safaa) is called Cheera in Punjabi. The officers were shocked. Likewise, I was once posted in Murree as a Lecturer. While traveling in public transport in Punjab, you know in our society these days, the FM Radios have changed their styles. The Radio Jockeys speak while music plays in the background. So, neither can you enjoy her talk nor the music. The song being played was “Mahi merya rond na marin, me da laaya jind jan da” (My beloved, do not betray me as I have put my life at stake for you), probably sung by Noor Jahan. The Radio jockey said while lowering the volume, “I consulted a Punjabi scholar about the meaning of ‘rond marna,’ and he told me it means to shoot someone.” This shows the youth’s nonseriousness of Punjabis towards their language and culture.
Host: I think parents play an important role in the upbringing of children because whatever language the parents speak, the child will try to repeat it, as is the case in Observational Learning of a Child.
Guest: In our Punjab (both Eastern and Western), it is often said that if you don’t speak Hindi or English on the Indian side of Punjab, you probably won’t be able to compete in Indian civil services and other competitive exams. On our (Pakistani) side of Punjab, it is widely regarded that if you don’t know Urdu and English, you might not ace the civil services examinations. This is why they are encouraged to learn such languages, the language of capital (market language), which isn’t bad, but the problem arises when you discourage Punjabis from speaking Punjabi. The second thing is that when our children get this “heen bhavna” or inferiority complex, perhaps the Punjabi language is not a good language. But I think Punjabi youth can still struggle to regain the lost glory of their language. You see, in our home, it was said that if you don’t learn English and Urdu, you won’t succeed. Gradually, I started studying my culture; I read the poetry of Waris Shah, Bulleh Shah, Mian Muhammad Bakhsh, and Sultan Bahu, the famous Punjabi poets. Each verse of such gems contains pearls of wisdom. If our youth is getting away from Punjabi culture, they would lose gems of
wisdom. For example, our proverbial wisdom such as “Dhyian sab dian sanjhiyan hundian ne” (Daughters are cherished and valued by the entire community) or “Wadyan da ehtram karna chai da ay” (the elderly shall be respected), such ethics and values cannot come from the West. If we defy our (Punjabi) culture, we will not only be cut off from our language and heritage, but we will also lose the gems of wisdom that they carry. Especially poets like Mian Muhammad Bakhsh; his poetry is full of wisdom and appeals to the intellect.